Precomputed Effects

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Alphons
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:30 pm

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Precomputed Effects

This is not really a suggestion, but more of a Discussion Topic, so I'm putting it here.



For the last 20 minutes, I have been thinking about precomputed effects.
The ones that have been (re-)introduced in the beta.
And don't get me wrong, I'm really stoked on working with the new sampler and all of what it has to offer.

But something struck out to me when I thought about it, and that is the Reverb.

You have 2 precomputed reverbs to choose from.
These are a good basis to start, but I thought maybe If we go that route that we could introduce a bit more modularity into it.
Or just a wider gambit of possible options to play with.

Precomputed effects have many upsides compared to using static post effects, and a few downsides depending on the result you are looking for.
The first thing to look for is that the computation is done before any pitching.
If you take a sample and ring modulate it, it will get a certain timbre depending on the Frequency you used for Ring modulation.
But if you apply the ring modulation as a post effect, you will have a timbre that will change depending on the distance to the frequencies its ring modulating.
But if it's done before any pitching, its simply applying the timbre and then pitching, leaving the ratio of the timbre to the fundamentals intact.
Its kinda comparable to just applying the post effect, recording it in Edison/rendering it out, and then dumping it into a sampler again.


Furthermore, it can cut at any time depending on the volume envelope.
If I add a reverb to a sample, you will never have any bleed from a previous instance of the sample, because there is no reverb projected forward in time, but rather a texture added to the sound.

If you have a Volume Envelope with a release of 0, the sound will instantly stop, and if you start the note again, there will be no muted reverb tail from the previous note press that has to be killed with an automation clip or anything.
FL64_2018-03-20_18-56-08.png
Additionally, there is a huge CPU benefit to be had.
Of course, that might come to a minor increase in memory usage, depending on the implementation.
But in theory, this whole process of a precomputed effect only has to be calculated once.
Either when you load the project, or when you tweak a setting.
But not every time you play a note, greatly reducing theoretical computations needed while doing live audio.


But there are some downsides.
For example modularity.
First of all, looking at a reverb.
In this case, since its precomputed, it's the desired outcome.
But one issue that many users had with the last iteration of the Fruity Reeverb 2 (why with 2 e btw?) is that slight metallic clang you would get.
The issue was that every time you put in a signal, similar to a convoluted signal, you would get the exact same result.
Now that a modulation has been added that has been mostly extinguished.
Giving it a more noisy sound that seems more random.

The issue I have here is that you "only" have 2 possible reverbs in the sampler. A and B.
And one knob with the label "reverb amount" which probably constitutes a dry wet knob.
Now you lose all the variability of a reverb plugin. Values like a low or high cut, or a decay time.
Even things like stereo separation of the wet part of the signal.



Now, I don't want a full-fledged reverb interface.
That would take up space, and be clunky and stupid IMO.
But I have an alternate suggestion, and that is approaching it with convolution.
I'm halfway certain that the existing 2 reverbs are actually doing discrete-time convolution.
How about opening the thing up and allowing users to use other convolution impulses.

I personally have made myself a big library of delay, frequency modulation and reverb based spring reverb impulses to apply textures in a multiband setting to my basses.
(I'm using Stock plugins and Patcher for it btw. I'm too poor to afford the MConvolverMB at this point in time :P)
Its a really fun and interesting way of approaching things, and I could see how doing it in the sampler could improve or change things.
Besides, there is a big library of decent to almost stellar recorded and sampled impulses in the stock installation.
The cabinet impulses are the cherry on top for any guitar enthusiast.



Additionally, I have been thinking what mathematically based precomputed effects one could add to the already present mix.
Mathematical because it allows it to be modular, while not having a "distinct taste" to it.
The 2 reverbs that are there seem more like a canned quick thing to me then something modular, while the ring modulation is something that can be reproduced to exact measures with any plugin doing ring modulation.

On that note: I mean, it makes sense that one uses their ears to listen to it, but why the hell is the RM Frequency displayed in %?
Same for the Cutoff frequency.
I don't particularly mind it, I'm more thankful to have these features in the first place, but there is a frequency in the back end, why not just display it.

Next thing, how about Frequency shifting.
That might be really interesting for drum processing or pitching things.
It can be done precomputed and would certainly spice up things quite a bit.
I have been having conversations about this with some fellow users around a year ago, and it is a really great tool especially for percussive sounds.
(Maybe add a Frequency shifter Plugin in general, btw. We need that.
It's already been overdue that we got a Transient processor, next thing should be a goddamn Frequency shifter.)
On that note, nice I'm a big Melda Productions Shill, for anyone interested in frequency shifting, there is a really nice free frequency shifter on their site.
https://www.meldaproduction.com/MFreqShifter
It's my goto as well.



The next thing I would like to point out is how LFO Tool and Serum by Steve Duda (Xfer) handle filters and effects.
It's mostly phase shifting, but there is so much more to be had from that.
I'd especially emphasize 3 more popular algorithms for designing electronic riddim or dubstep basses.
Those would be, the All-Pass Filter, the Combs one, and the Reverb one, which is based on the epicVerb algorithm if I recall correctly.

Now, the interesting thing about implementing something like this is that it would sound nothing like Serum or the LFO tool stuff.
When those are applied it's to a continuous signal.
So there is a general texture applied to the whole sound.

A better example would be if you, for example, take a SAW wave and then have a Band Stop around your higher mids or something, to get a formant or Tube like sounding timbre.
Now, if you play a SAW wave at different pitches through that EQ, the band stop will stay at the same place, but the distance from the fundamental to the band stop will change. And it will be different harmonic frequencies that will get carved out.
FL64_2018-03-20_20-08-41.png
If you take this phase shifting concept, however, and just use it for that texture in a precomputed effect, and for example take a band stop at that thing. The band stop will actually move with the fundamental and the pitch of the sound.
It's not from a listening standpoint not part of the acoustics anymore, but rather part of the instrument that plays the sound.

And that is exactly what we are doing.
FL64_2018-03-20_20-15-30.png
FL64_2018-03-20_20-14-45.png
Maybe there could be something like the Filter section of Serum and LFO tool added to the sampler.
With the difference that you can't automate the cutoff, since its precomputed, and that it's applied to the sample. That way just changing the phase and volume of the harmonics.
A bunch of options, not that much work, and room for expansion.
Besides that, it would be unique.
I haven't seen a concept like this done to such an extent before, but then again, it's already possible.
But the means of getting there would be resampling and recording. Then put it back in and pitch it.
It would be a creative tool that would tear down barriers and vastly speed up creative work with samples.


Let me hear your thoughts about it, or maybe even add some ideas to the mix here.
I'm not constructing an "ideal" system here, but I'm just throwing stuff at a wall here to see if something sticks.
But I see that there is great potential in the readded system.
Just that it lacks in some areas.
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