Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

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Scoox
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:14 am

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Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

I might get roasted for posting this but here it goes...

I really like what FL can do but the way the functionality is accessed really does the program no justice. Right now I'm looking into Live and Bitwig as alternatives and I'm seriously considering switching. I bought FL about 5 years ago because I really liked the power and flexibility of its automation system. To this date I still think FL is king of automation. I also like the way left click draws and right click deletes, it's just a very efficient way to edit in the playlist and the piano roll, and it's probably the main reason you'll hear people say "FL's piano roll is the best out there".

However, over the years I've grown disillusioned with the product and the way development is heading. I personally know several people who have switched from FL to other DAWs but none the other way round (except myself when I did, if that counts). The usual complaint is that "FL's UI is a mess". It's sad because the functionality is all there, it's how it's accessed that does the program a terrible injustice. I think FL is many people's first DAW and once they've used it for a while they start questioning the workflow, at which point they look elsewhere—and find.

I must have spent hundreds—if not thousands—of hours posting detailed but reports and feature requests, some of which gained considerable traction. For the longest time I thought it was worth my time. When Gol was still around, he actually implemented a few workflow improvements I requested, almost immediately, in direct response to my FR, and this was before I had even bought a license! I don't know many companies that'd would do that. I've always felt the community is awesome, and IL staff are both professional, supportive and always quick to reply. But every update consistently fails to deliver on core workflow improvements:
Many of these points were acknowledged even by IL staff themselves, but that's as far as it went. These are all things in dire need of attention and which have been requested countless times some of them as far back as 10 years ago. I understand verbalising a feature and throwing together a mock-up in MS Paint is much easier than actually coding it, especially when you have to factor in backwards compatibility and existing user preferences, and I've always kept that in mind. But every attempt to address these issues has been patchwork. Things like the one-level nesting of tracks. So I think it's fair to say there's enough work to keep the devs busy for another two or three years, but then FLEX happens, and I'm left wondering what is going on at IL??

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's all in the works and FL21 will make it all alright. But for me the latest update with FLEX was the final nail in the coffin. The market is saturated with jaw-dropping instrument plugins, heck, FL itself already packs some amazing plugins, specifically Harmour and Sytrus, so why do we need yet another instrument plugin? I wouldn't be complaining if the main program was already perfect, but it's far from it. FLEX falls in the nice-to-have category, but we don't need it, not in 2019, not when the other existing stuff could still be improved. I see FLEX as a hopeless attempt by IL to create a new revenue stream. Now IL have yet another piece of software to maintain that will distract the devs from focusing on the main program.

Just now I got a notification in my browser to tell me FL 20.5.1 has just been released—let's take a look:
  • *New demo song
  • *New Sytrus presets
  • *FLEX | Click packs to focus selected preset - Not a problem before FLEX was released
  • *FLEX | 'For download' and 'Store' categories - Not a problem before FLEX was released. Here it is, the new revenue stream for IL
  • *ZGEditor Visualizer | Reload edited images button - Somehow ZGEditor gets updated on every release.
  • **Plugin Manager | Warns if closed mid-scan - AFAIK nothing terrible happens if it closes mid-scan. Now it's one more dialogue box to deal with.
  • Wrapper - Added option to allow dropping files on VST and VST3 plugins.
  • **User Data Folder | Asks to move content - Content can be moved manually. Users don't change their data folder constantly, so needing to move the data manually doesn't seem like a huge deal. Anyway, this specific point doesn't seem like it would take days to implement so it's alright.
An asterisk (*) means 'nobody cares'. Two asterisks (**) means most people won't notice/care.

These are the juiciest points of the update. The bugfixes are always a good thing, and I'm thankful for those.

If I switch to Live or Bitwig, which it looks like it's going to happen, I'll continue to use IL plugins and maybe still use ZGameEditor to make cool music videos. I will miss automation clips and linked clips though.
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Last edited by Scoox on Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:08 am, edited 9 times in total.

Scoox
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:51 am

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Re: Thinking about switching DAWs

Here's my analysis of the previous 20.5 update,...
Last edited by Scoox on Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:25 am, edited 3 times in total.

Scoox
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:20 am

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Re: Thinking about switching DAWs

I like lifetime free upgrades as much as anyone...
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natraj
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:45 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

but for me, as it stands, I don't think I've go...

Scoox
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:51 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

natraj wrote:but for me, as it stands, I don't ...

N_K
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:16 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Reading this, I think somewhere in IL virtual o...

osflaa
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:44 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

The four biggest mistakes I have made when it c...

K&K
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:50 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

I wouldn't say FL development is going horribly...

natraj
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:53 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

but I also spent time writing the posts which n...

Scott
Site Admin
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:54 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

There is a READ THIS thread at the top of this ...

N_K
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:03 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

osflaa wrote:According to IL they barely earn m...

xbitz
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:04 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

both BWS and Live would be stepping back (both ...

Trancit
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:30 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

nevermind...
Last edited by Trancit on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

osflaa
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:38 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

N_K wrote:osflaa wrote:According to IL they bar...

sdh
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:40 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

There are some things I'd like different or add...

Trancit
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:40 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

nevermind...
Last edited by Trancit on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scott
Site Admin
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:45 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Trancit wrote:I like FLEX... even the closed co...

xbitz
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:27 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Trancit wrote: ...and I would love to see some...
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Scoox
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:41 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Thanks for the comments Scott and all. I know y...

Trancit
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:03 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

nevermind...
Last edited by Trancit on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scott
Site Admin
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:14 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Trancit wrote:What does lifetime free upgrades ...

m@RV
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:17 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

The grass is always greener. It doesn't matter ...

_Ram
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:22 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

fl studio is life. @Scott any news if the akai...

Dion
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:30 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Scoox wrote:The usual complaint is that "FL's U...




Scott
Site Admin
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:30 am

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Bruellbart wrote:I'm still wondering how this b...

Trancit
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:05 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

nevermind...
Last edited by Trancit on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xbitz
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:17 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

about the "FL's UI is a mess", IMO would be ver...
Last edited by xbitz on Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.


werz
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:36 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Scott, Count me amongst the 10,000. I am not on...


Trancit
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:48 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

nevermind...
Last edited by Trancit on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dunbar
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:05 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

I guarantee you will switch back (and curse you...

GFlare
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:35 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Scott wrote:There is a READ THIS thread at the ...

Dion
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:17 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

threegeese wrote:I disagree with the sentiment ...

natraj
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:50 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Many, many new developments in FL have been app...

Scoox
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:04 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Dion wrote:I do, by the way, agree with a lot o...


RajahP
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:36 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Something is to be said about WHAT programs you...

natraj
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:45 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Edit.. won’t mind paying for these features... ...

Philth
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:23 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

People complaining about the UI haven't tried A...

natraj
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:43 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

that DAW is a nightmare UI wise That's true fo...

HeathW
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:44 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

I commend Scoox for speaking his mind about his...


Sonic Boom
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:45 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Different strokes for different folks! It’s lik...

Trancit
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:13 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

nevermind...
Last edited by Trancit on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scott
Site Admin
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:38 pm

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Re: Thinking about switching to Live or Bitwig

Scoox wrote: Scott wrote:Let me reiterate, ALL ...



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